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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number

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744 I wonder what the numerologists

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would make out of that for the 8th of

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January

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2023 Richard Saunders coming to you from

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a very wet and Soggy

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and storm damaged Bay Area

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San Francisco coming up on this week's

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Show Adrian Hill you can count on Adrian

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she looks at project Wiki paranormal

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with the help of Rob Palmer and me now

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we keep project paranormal aims to

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provide a framework for the Improvement

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and organization of Articles related to

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the Paranormal anomalous phenomena and

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other similar areas and in this segment

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Adrian will look at the top 10

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paranormal pages on Wiki lots of

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interesting topics coming up

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following that it's an interview with my

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old friend Susan Gerber from Guerrilla

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skepticism on Wikipedia at this time

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she is going to tell us about her new

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book well the book she's currently

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writing all about so-called grief

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vampires these are the people who

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apparently seemingly also they say chat

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with dead people

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why do they do it and why is Susan

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writing a book find out later on then to

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round off the show back to the Trove

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archives the digitized Australian

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newspapers where we look for witches in

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Suburbia

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interesting article from 1987.

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now if you want to start this year the

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right way and every month this year the

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right way head to menard.com

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and download the free free Maynard

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calendar for 2023 lots of photographs of

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Maynard yeah download the calendar print

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it out and whack it on the wall you

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might have to do uh you know put up a a

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thumbtack or a bit of blue tag

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get a hammer out you know sort of like

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an old job that's it that's your task an

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odd job around the house putting up

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Maynard's calendar

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well lots to get through in the show

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this week so it's now time for me to

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walk into the kitchen have a few more of

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my favorite thing here in the states or

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one of my favorite things is uh jalapeno

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chips

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oh boy they're good while I do that I

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foreign

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[Music]

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with Adrian Hill

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[Music]

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talk about a little-known aspect of

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Wikipedia which is called Wiki projects

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according to Wikipedia's own definition

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a Wiki project is quote a group of

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editors that wish to work together as a

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team to improve Wikipedia a successful

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Wiki project contributes toward

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Wikipedia's mission of building an

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encyclopedia end quote

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now Rob Palmer a very long time

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Wikipedia editor is going to give us a

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little bit more background on exactly

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what Wiki projects are he's a lot more

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qualified to do that than I am

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thanks Adrian so yes I'm a veteran

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Wikipedia editor and I know a little

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about this complex aspect of the

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encyclopedia so let me tell you what I

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know there are many Wiki projects on

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Wikipedia somewhere in the neighborhood

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of 2000 in fact and each sets its own

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goals like everything on Wikipedia these

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projects operate in a collaborative

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Manner and any Wikipedia editor can join

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a Wiki project by following the

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directions on that project's main page

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the primary goal of Wiki projects is to

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Monitor and improve articles of interest

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to its members to add a Wikipedia

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article to a project a project member

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simply adds a Project Specific tag to

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that article's talk page and then rates

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it on things including importance in

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this way members of that project are

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made aware that this article should be

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monitored or perhaps improved by members

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of the project

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any number of projects can tag a given

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article for their project

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for example the article about the TV

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series The Haunting of Hill House is

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tagged by six projects including

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American television horror LGBT studies

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paranormal and skepticism one benefit of

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tagging articles in this way is for each

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Wiki Project Wikipedia collects the set

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of all their tagged articles and creates

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an article named popular Pages which

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tabulates those articles by Page views

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both for total and the daily average the

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data is automatically periodically

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updated for anyone interested in finding

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out what topics are of high interest to

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Wikipedia readers and for helping

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Wikipedia editors to decide which

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articles to spend their limited time

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improving these popular page articles

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are invaluable

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thanks so much Rob

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so today what we're going to do is we're

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going to take a look at the Articles

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associated with a Wiki project of

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Interest not only to Paranormal

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enthusiasts but to Skeptics we're going

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to look at Wiki project paranormal

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this is a Wiki project which says that

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at quote aims to provide a framework for

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the Improvement and organization of

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Articles related to the Paranormal

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anomalous phenomena and other similar

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areas end quote

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I'm going to tell you where to find this

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Project's main page so get your pencils

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ready and if you can't write it down

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right now Richard will include the links

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in the show notes as usual so here we go

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so the Project's main page is at

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wikipedia.org forward slash Wiki forward

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slash Wikipedia colon Wiki project

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underscore paranormal

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and its popular Pages article is at

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wikipedia.org forward slash Wiki forward

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slash Wikipedia colon Wiki project

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underscore paranormal forward slash

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popular underscore Pages who I think I

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got that

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for your information if you see a banner

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on the wiki project paranormal page what

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this indicates is quote this Wiki

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project is believed to be inactive end

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quote

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and now what we're going to do is take a

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look at the top 10 Wikipedia articles

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per number of page views per day listed

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at Wiki project paranormal slash popular

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pages and we're doing this with the help

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of our fearless leader Richard Saunders

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I'm so excited to do this project with

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him the list that we're using comes from

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data collected on December 8th so it's

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reasonably up to date and you can check

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it out for yourself to see if it changes

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[Music]

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at number 10 on the list with a daily

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average of

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3996 views is The Haunting of Hill House

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TV series according to its wiki page The

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Haunting of Hill House is an American

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supernatural horror drama streaming

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television miniseries created and

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directed by Mike Flanagan produced by

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Albion television and Paramount Pictures

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for Netflix and serves as the first

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entry in The Haunting Anthology series

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it is Loosely based on the 1959 novel of

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the same name by Shirley Jackson The

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Plot alternates between two timelines

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following five adult siblings whose

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paranormal experiences at Hill House

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continue to haunt them in the present

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day

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and flashbacks depicting events leading

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up to the eventual night in 1992 when

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the family fled from the mansion

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the series premiered on Netflix on

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October the 12th 2018. the hoarding of

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Hill House received critical acclaim

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particularly for its acting directing

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and production values a follow-up series

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by Flanagan titled The Haunting of blind

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Manor with most of the same crew and

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some of the same cast but a different

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story and characters was released on

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October the 9th 2020.

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at number nine on the list with a daily

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average of

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4494 views is Area 51 and according to

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its Wikipedia page Area 51 is the common

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name of a highly classified United

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States Air Force or USAF facility within

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the Nevada test and training range a

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remote Detachment administered by

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Edwards Air Force Base the facility is

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officially called homie airport or Groom

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Lake after the Salt Flat next to its

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Airfield details of its operations are

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not made public but the USAF says that

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it is an open training range and it is

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commonly thought to support the

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development and testing of experimental

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aircraft and weapon systems the USAF and

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CIA acquired the site in 1955 primarily

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for flight testing the Lockheed U2

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aircraft the intense secrecy surrounding

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the base has made it the frequent

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subject of conspiracy theories and a

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central component of unidentified flying

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object or UFO folklore I guess I could

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call that UAP now don't we it has never

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been declared a secret base but all

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research and occurrences in Area 51 are

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top secret sensitive compartmented

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information the CIA publicly

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acknowledged the base's existence on

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June 25th 2013. following a Freedom of

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Information Act or foia request filed in

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2005 and Declassified documents

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detailing its history and purpose Area

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51 is located in the southern portion of

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Nevada 83 miles or 134 kilometers north

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northwest of Las Vegas the surrounding

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area is a popular tourist destination

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including the small town of Rachel on

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the quote extraterrestrial Highway end

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quote

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at number eight on the list with a daily

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average of

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4823 views is Michael Archangel

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according to its wiki page Michael also

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called Saint Michael the Archangel Saint

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Michael in the taxiak in Orthodoxy and

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Archangel Michael is an archangel in

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Judaism Christianity Islam and the

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Baha'i faith the earliest surviving

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mentions of his name are in the third

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and second century BC Jewish Works often

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but not always apocalyptic where he is

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the chief of the Angels and Archangels

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and responsible for the care of Israel

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Christianity adopted nearly all the

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Jewish Traditions concerning him and he

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has mentioned explicitly in Revelation

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12 7-12 where he does battle with Satan

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in the Epistle of Jude where the author

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denounces Heretics by contrasting them

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with Michael

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coming in at number seven on the list

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with a daily average of

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4867 views is skinwalker

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and according to its Wikipedia page in

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Navajo culture a skinwalker is a type of

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harmful witch who has the ability to

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turn into possess or disguise themselves

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as an animal

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the term is never used for healers in

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the Navajo language it translates to

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quote by means of it it goes on all

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fours end quote

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Navajo witches including skinwalkers

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represent the antithesis of Navajo

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Cultural values while Community healers

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and cultural workers are known as

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medicine men and women or by other

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positive nurturing terms in the local

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indigenous language witches are seen as

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evil performing Twisted ceremonies and

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manipulating magic in a perversion of

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the good works medicine people

281
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,260
traditionally perform

282
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,360
in order to practice their good works

283
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:05,760
traditional healers learn about both

284
00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:08,579
good and evil magic most can handle a

285
00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:10,620
responsibility but some people can

286
00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:12,420
become corrupt and choose to become

287
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:15,720
witches the legend of the skinwalkers is

288
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:17,820
not well understood outside of Navajo

289
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:20,399
culture both due to reluctance to

290
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:22,500
discuss the subject with Outsiders as

291
00:13:26,690 --> 00:13:24,300
well as those from outside the culture

292
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,700
lacking the lived experience native

293
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,800
commentators feel is needed to

294
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,959
understand the lore

295
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:33,120
at number six on the list with a daily

296
00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:34,639
average of

297
00:13:41,329 --> 00:13:37,980
5410 views is Atlantis

298
00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:41,339
according to its wiki page Atlantis is a

299
00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:43,560
fictional island mentioned in an

300
00:13:49,550 --> 00:13:46,200
allegory on the hubris of nations in

301
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:49,560
Plato's Works timorous and kratitis

302
00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:52,560
wherein it represents the antagonist

303
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:56,220
Naval power that besieges ancient Athens

304
00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:57,680
the

305
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,660
pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's

306
00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:03,360
ideal state in the Republic in the story

307
00:14:08,449 --> 00:14:05,720
Athens repels the Atlantean attack

308
00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:08,459
unlike any other nation of the known

309
00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:11,700
world supposedly bearing witness to the

310
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:14,040
superiority of Plato's concept of a

311
00:14:18,490 --> 00:14:16,740
state the story concludes with Atlantis

312
00:14:22,850 --> 00:14:18,500
falling out of favor with the deities

313
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:22,860
and submerging into the Atlantic Ocean

314
00:14:29,690 --> 00:14:25,800
and number five on the list with a daily

315
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,700
average of 4009 views are Ed and

316
00:14:35,389 --> 00:14:31,920
Lorraine Warren and according to their

317
00:14:37,850 --> 00:14:35,399
Wikipedia page Edward Warren Mining and

318
00:14:40,189 --> 00:14:37,860
Lorraine Rita Warren where American

319
00:14:42,290 --> 00:14:40,199
paranormal investigators and authors

320
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,300
associated with prominent cases of

321
00:14:45,769 --> 00:14:44,399
alleged hauntings Edward was a

322
00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:45,779
self-taught and self-professed

323
00:14:50,509 --> 00:14:48,360
demonologist author and lecturer

324
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,519
Lorraine professed to be a clairvoyant

325
00:14:55,610 --> 00:14:52,560
and a light trance medium who worked

326
00:14:57,410 --> 00:14:55,620
closely with her husband in 1952 the

327
00:15:01,310 --> 00:14:57,420
warrants founded the New England society

328
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,320
for psychic research or nespr the oldest

329
00:15:05,389 --> 00:15:03,360
ghost hunting group in New England

330
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,399
they authored many books about the

331
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,959
Paranormal and about their Private

332
00:15:11,930 --> 00:15:09,120
Investigations into various reports of

333
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:11,940
Paranormal Activity they claimed to have

334
00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:14,519
investigated well over 10 000 cases

335
00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:16,980
during their career the Warrens were

336
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,660
among the first investigators in the

337
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:20,880
Amityville haunting according to the

338
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:22,740
Warrens the official website of the

339
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:26,399
nespr vivaglam magazine and several

340
00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:30,000
other sources the nespr uses a variety

341
00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:33,060
of individuals including medical doctors

342
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,579
researchers police officers nurses

343
00:15:39,710 --> 00:15:37,440
college students and members of the

344
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:39,720
clergy in its investigations

345
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:42,000
stories of ghost hauntings popularized

346
00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:44,339
by the Warrens have been adapted as or

347
00:15:49,810 --> 00:15:47,220
have indirectly inspired dozens of films

348
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,820
television series and documentaries

349
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:51,839
including several films in the

350
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,959
Amityville horror series and the films

351
00:15:59,689 --> 00:15:57,420
in The Conjuring universe

352
00:16:02,030 --> 00:15:59,699
Skeptics Perry DeAngelis and Stephen

353
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,040
Novella investigated the Warren's

354
00:16:07,250 --> 00:16:05,040
evidence and described it as Blarney

355
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:07,260
skeptical investigators Joe Nichol and

356
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,360
Benjamin Radford concluded that the

357
00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:11,279
better known hauntings Amityville and

358
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:13,380
the snedeker family haunting did not

359
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,680
happen and had been invented

360
00:16:20,350 --> 00:16:18,720
at number four on the list with a daily

361
00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:20,360
average of

362
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,500
8178 views is Gregory Rasputin according

363
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:28,079
to his wiki page Gregory effemovic

364
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:33,120
Rasputin 1869 to 1916 was a Russian

365
00:16:38,449 --> 00:16:36,480
Mystic and self-proclaimed holy man he

366
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:38,459
is best known for having befriended the

367
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:40,920
royal family of Nicholas II The Last

368
00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:43,680
Emperor of Russia through whom he gained

369
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:45,420
a considerable influence in the later

370
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:48,720
years of the Russian Empire in late 1906

371
00:16:54,670 --> 00:16:51,480
he began acting as a faith healer for

372
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:54,680
Nicholas and Alexandra's only son Alexi

373
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:57,000
nikolaevich who was suffering from

374
00:17:02,509 --> 00:17:00,060
hemophilia he was a diversive figure in

375
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:02,519
court seen by some Russians as a Mystic

376
00:17:08,449 --> 00:17:05,640
Visionary and profit and by others as a

377
00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:08,459
religious charlatan the extent of

378
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:10,380
Rasputin's power reached an all-time

379
00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:13,799
high in 1915 when Nicholas left Saint

380
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:16,380
Petersburg to oversee the Imperial

381
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:19,380
Russian army as it was engaged in World

382
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:23,579
War One in Nicholas's absence Rasputin

383
00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:26,220
and Alexandria Consolidated their

384
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:27,980
influence across the Russian Empire

385
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,720
however as Russian military defeats

386
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:32,640
mounted on the Eastern Front both

387
00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:34,980
figures became increasingly unpopular

388
00:17:40,669 --> 00:17:37,799
and in the early morning of the 30th of

389
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,679
December 1916 Rasputin was assassinated

390
00:17:46,029 --> 00:17:42,960
by a group of conservative Russian

391
00:17:49,010 --> 00:17:46,039
noblemen who opposed his influence over

392
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:49,020
Alexandria and Nicholas

393
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:51,240
at number three on the list with a daily

394
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:55,440
average of 5536 views is the Bermuda

395
00:18:00,350 --> 00:17:58,200
Triangle according to its wiki page the

396
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:00,360
Bermuda Triangle also known as The

397
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,460
Devil's Triangle is an urban legend

398
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:05,039
focused on a Loosely defined region in

399
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,960
the western part of the North Atlantic

400
00:18:10,970 --> 00:18:09,120
Ocean where a number of aircraft and

401
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:10,980
ships are said to have disappeared under

402
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:13,740
mysterious circumstances the idea of the

403
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:16,679
area as uniquely prone to disappearances

404
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,200
arose in the mid-20th century but most

405
00:18:23,710 --> 00:18:21,480
reputable sources dismiss the idea that

406
00:18:27,049 --> 00:18:23,720
there is any mystery

407
00:18:28,850 --> 00:18:27,059
paranormal explanations triangle writers

408
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:28,860
have used a number of Supernatural

409
00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:31,500
Concepts to explain the events one

410
00:18:35,450 --> 00:18:33,480
explanation pins the blame on leftover

411
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,460
technology from the mythical lost

412
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:38,160
continent of Atlantis sometimes

413
00:18:42,529 --> 00:18:40,380
connected to the Atlanta story is the

414
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,539
submerged rock formation known as the

415
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,880
Bimini Road off the island of Bimini in

416
00:18:48,049 --> 00:18:46,080
the Bahamas

417
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:48,059
which is in a triangle by some

418
00:18:51,289 --> 00:18:49,200
definitions

419
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:51,299
followers of the purported psychic

420
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:53,460
Edward Casey take his prediction that

421
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:55,140
evidence of Atlantis would be found in

422
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,140
1968 as referring to the discovery of

423
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:00,960
the Bimini Road Believers describe the

424
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:02,940
formation as a road wall or other

425
00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:05,520
structure but the Bimini Road is of

426
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:07,799
natural origin

427
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:10,799
some hypothesize that a parallel

428
00:19:16,250 --> 00:19:12,900
universe exists in the Bermuda Triangle

429
00:19:18,049 --> 00:19:16,260
region causing a time-space warp that

430
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,059
sucks the objects around it into a

431
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:20,460
parallel universe others attribute the

432
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,820
events to UFOs Charles berlitz author of

433
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:25,919
various books on anomalous phenomena

434
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:28,380
lists several theories attributing the

435
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:30,840
losses in the Triangle to anomalous or

436
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:33,120
unexplained forces

437
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:35,820
as an aside growing up the Bermuda

438
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,640
Triangle really scared me

439
00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:40,799
at number two on the list with a daily

440
00:19:48,529 --> 00:19:45,660
average of 8625 views is Coral Castle

441
00:19:51,130 --> 00:19:48,539
Coral Castle is an O light Limestone

442
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:51,140
structure created by Latvian American

443
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:55,760
eccentric Edward lead scallion

444
00:20:01,970 --> 00:19:58,559
1887-1951 it is located in

445
00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:01,980
unincorporated territory of Miami Dale

446
00:20:07,850 --> 00:20:04,740
County Florida between the cities of

447
00:20:10,370 --> 00:20:07,860
Homestead and Leisure City the structure

448
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:10,380
comprises numerous large Stones each

449
00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:13,440
weighing several tons sculptured into a

450
00:20:18,890 --> 00:20:15,960
variety of shapes including slab walls

451
00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:18,900
tables chairs a crescent moon a water

452
00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:23,100
fountain and a sundial it is currently a

453
00:20:28,669 --> 00:20:25,460
privately operated tourist attraction

454
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:28,679
Coral Castle is noted for Legends

455
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:31,140
surrounding its creation that claim it

456
00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:34,260
was built single-handedly by lead

457
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,620
scallion using reverse magnetism or

458
00:20:42,049 --> 00:20:40,559
supernatural abilities to move and carve

459
00:20:45,289 --> 00:20:42,059
the stones

460
00:20:47,409 --> 00:20:45,299
finally at number one on the list with a

461
00:20:50,930 --> 00:20:47,419
daily average of 12

462
00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:50,940
632 views per day is something I

463
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,160
actually had never heard of before and I

464
00:20:56,090 --> 00:20:54,960
will try my best to pronounce it

465
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:56,100
correctly

466
00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:00,240
it is utsuru Boone according to its wiki

467
00:21:06,590 --> 00:21:03,240
page utsuro Boone was an unknown object

468
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:06,600
that allegedly washed ashore in 1803 in

469
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:08,820
Hitachi Province on the eastern coast of

470
00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:09,900
Japan

471
00:21:16,909 --> 00:21:13,140
when defining a turaboon the Boon part

472
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:16,919
means boat while utsuro means empty or

473
00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:18,059
Hollow

474
00:21:23,810 --> 00:21:20,700
accounts of the tail appear in three

475
00:21:27,890 --> 00:21:23,820
texts Tales from the rabbit Garden in

476
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:27,900
1825 Diaries and stories of Castaways in

477
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:33,240
1835 and dust of the apricot in 1844 and

478
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:35,220
of course those are translations from

479
00:21:39,049 --> 00:21:36,720
the Japanese

480
00:21:42,169 --> 00:21:39,059
according to Legend an attractive young

481
00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:42,179
woman aged 18 to 20 years old arrived on

482
00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:45,000
a local Beach aboard the hollow ship on

483
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,840
February 22nd 1803. fishermen brought

484
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:51,120
her Inland to investigate further but

485
00:21:55,549 --> 00:21:53,039
the woman was unable to communicate in

486
00:21:57,049 --> 00:21:55,559
Japanese she was very different from

487
00:21:59,570 --> 00:21:57,059
anyone else there

488
00:22:02,450 --> 00:21:59,580
the fisherman then returned her and her

489
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:02,460
vessel to the Sea where it drifted away

490
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:05,039
historians ethnologists and physicists

491
00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:08,460
such as kazao Tanaka and yanagita kunio

492
00:22:13,850 --> 00:22:11,700
have evaluated the legend of the hollow

493
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,860
boat as part of a long-standing

494
00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:15,919
tradition within Japanese folklore

495
00:22:20,810 --> 00:22:19,140
alternatively certain ufologists have

496
00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:20,820
claimed that the story represents

497
00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:23,340
evidence for a close encounter with

498
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:32,870
and there you have it the top 10 list as

499
00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:35,760
recorded on the wiki project paranormal

500
00:22:41,049 --> 00:22:38,340
now before you ask here are the subjects

501
00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:41,059
making up numbers 11 through 20.

502
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,100
Archangel The X-Files

503
00:22:48,409 --> 00:22:46,559
David ick Bigfoot

504
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:48,419
evil eye

505
00:22:53,570 --> 00:22:50,340
chupacabra who

506
00:22:56,890 --> 00:22:53,580
list of Cryptids Tarot

507
00:23:02,149 --> 00:22:56,900
Cabinet of Curiosities and at number 20

508
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:04,430
on the next segment I'll look at the

509
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:06,480
wiki project for skepticism and see what

510
00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:08,520
the top page views are for skeptical

511
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:11,640
inquiry but for now this is Adrian Hill

512
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:14,220
signing off from Canada

513
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:16,330
foreign

514
00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:43,789
[Music]

515
00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:49,500
foreign

516
00:24:00,970 --> 00:23:56,400
[Music]

517
00:24:00,980 --> 00:24:11,660
www.skepticzone.tv homepage

518
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:17,400
[Music]

519
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:36,060
foreign

520
00:24:57,070 --> 00:24:49,149
[Music]

521
00:25:02,410 --> 00:24:59,810
here's Susan gerbick

522
00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:02,420
foreign

523
00:25:09,289 --> 00:25:06,380
[Music]

524
00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:09,299
all the way down the coast down the

525
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:11,820
coast of beautiful Salinas in California

526
00:25:16,970 --> 00:25:14,880
it's Susan Gerber hello Susan hi Richard

527
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:16,980
hi audience

528
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:19,740
nice to see you Susan I mean we're not

529
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:23,039
that many miles kilometers furlongs

530
00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:27,120
chains leagues apart uh as it goes I

531
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:29,340
can't visit you uh this time sadly

532
00:25:34,130 --> 00:25:31,620
hopefully hopefully a bit later on in

533
00:25:36,049 --> 00:25:34,140
the year but uh it's nice to see you

534
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,059
because we're great to see you I love

535
00:25:41,090 --> 00:25:38,159
the power of this magical device we have

536
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:41,100
that is called them it's it's pretty

537
00:25:45,289 --> 00:25:42,960
good it's pretty good now the reason I'm

538
00:25:48,890 --> 00:25:45,299
calling you I want to talk to you

539
00:25:52,370 --> 00:25:48,900
because you're writing a book is this

540
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:52,380
the first book you've written yes it is

541
00:25:57,649 --> 00:25:55,320
the first book I've ever written and I

542
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:57,659
never ever in my entire life would have

543
00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:00,000
thought I would be writing a book

544
00:26:03,950 --> 00:26:02,700
well don't uh don't hold back what's the

545
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:03,960
book all about

546
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:06,299
it's going to be called grief vampires

547
00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:08,400
or Greek vampire I think we're gonna

548
00:26:13,549 --> 00:26:10,679
keep a singular I'm not sure Greek

549
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,559
vampire I like the old Flim Flam Randy's

550
00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:15,840
book where it said Flim Flam with the

551
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:18,120
exclamation point at the end yeah but

552
00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:19,500
people are telling me I probably

553
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:21,059
shouldn't use that it makes it kind of

554
00:26:25,789 --> 00:26:24,240
hard to categorize or catalog or people

555
00:26:27,049 --> 00:26:25,799
are always leaving the exclamation point

556
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,059
up so I think it's just going to be

557
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:29,039
grief Empire this is the process you go

558
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:30,059
through when you're trying to write a

559
00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:32,400
book how I mean even coming up with the

560
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:34,860
name of the book or the chapter titles

561
00:26:40,669 --> 00:26:38,400
or the cover it's all new to me and I

562
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:40,679
make it up as I go along and I'm getting

563
00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:41,640
there

564
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,220
have heard this term grief vampire and

565
00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:49,919
it gets mixed reactions when you use the

566
00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:51,240
term I know that but that's another

567
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:53,880
story for those people who have who may

568
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,940
not be familiar what do you mean I mean

569
00:27:02,510 --> 00:26:58,559
we're not talking about real vampires

570
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,590
very interesting

571
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:07,970
people who claim to be able to

572
00:27:13,330 --> 00:27:10,919
communicate with the dead so I'm more

573
00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:13,340
interested in the

574
00:27:20,029 --> 00:27:18,360
psychic-ish uh supposed psychic uh

575
00:27:22,450 --> 00:27:20,039
people who say that they can communicate

576
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:22,460
with the dead like psychic Detectives

577
00:27:29,570 --> 00:27:26,700
or more of the celebrity type that's not

578
00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:29,580
the rank and file psychic that's that

579
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:32,580
you're doing a tarot reading or is that

580
00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:34,559
your Halloween festival I'm more

581
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:35,940
interested in those people that you will

582
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:39,000
find on television or uh you know have

583
00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:40,620
some kind of prominence

584
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:42,360
you're talking about the professionals

585
00:27:46,850 --> 00:27:44,279
this is these are the people

586
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:46,860
for whom this is a business

587
00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:50,340
yes they have a business and more than

588
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:52,679
somebody who just has a website and way

589
00:27:58,370 --> 00:27:54,600
more than somebody you see on Tick Tock

590
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:58,380
or Facebook even though so many of these

591
00:28:03,289 --> 00:28:00,840
professionals do have

592
00:28:05,450 --> 00:28:03,299
um Tick Tock accounts and uh Facebook

593
00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:05,460
accounts and then do Facebook alive and

594
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:08,460
all that but I'm more interested in the

595
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:11,700
Sylvia Brown John Edward Thomas John

596
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:15,360
Matt Frazier Suzanne Northrup Jeanette

597
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:17,940
Wilson the people are going to be

598
00:28:24,049 --> 00:28:19,980
chapters of my book I've done a lot of

599
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:24,059
Investigations on them since I started

600
00:28:29,690 --> 00:28:26,820
um in this community about 2010

601
00:28:31,070 --> 00:28:29,700
and so the book will Chronicle in

602
00:28:33,310 --> 00:28:31,080
chronological order

603
00:28:36,110 --> 00:28:33,320
my experience in the skeptic Community

604
00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:36,120
kind of how I joined why I got

605
00:28:41,630 --> 00:28:40,200
interested in psychics and all the a lot

606
00:28:43,789 --> 00:28:41,640
of the people I've met during the years

607
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,799
who have who have aided me on my journey

608
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,080
either by you know kind of not doing

609
00:28:49,909 --> 00:28:48,480
things right I've learned from them you

610
00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:49,919
know you your teachers are the people

611
00:28:55,210 --> 00:28:52,919
around you good or bad and uh so I have

612
00:28:58,010 --> 00:28:55,220
some special in the beginning

613
00:29:00,350 --> 00:28:58,020
where I don't feel that the

614
00:29:03,529 --> 00:29:00,360
investigations were all that great and

615
00:29:05,149 --> 00:29:03,539
why and the mistakes that are made and

616
00:29:06,529 --> 00:29:05,159
then I don't I try not to make those

617
00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:06,539
same mistakes

618
00:29:10,430 --> 00:29:09,000
now let's just get back to this term so

619
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,440
you're talking about these very

620
00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:12,720
prominent shall we say so-called

621
00:29:19,010 --> 00:29:15,720
psychics people who claim they can talk

622
00:29:21,169 --> 00:29:19,020
with dead people to be blunt and the

623
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:21,179
term grief vampire is that is that a

624
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,580
term that you came up with no Mark

625
00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:25,679
Edward came up with that term right

626
00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:28,860
right and it basically means somebody

627
00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:31,980
wears a a vampire will feed off

628
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:35,220
somebody's blood a grief vampire will

629
00:29:41,630 --> 00:29:38,880
feed off their grief yeah their

630
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:41,640
loneliness desperation willingness to

631
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:45,600
believe gullibility need to believe

632
00:29:51,649 --> 00:29:48,720
um and just mainly grief yeah yeah so

633
00:29:53,630 --> 00:29:51,659
these people they're you know what's the

634
00:29:55,370 --> 00:29:53,640
old expression don't blame the victims

635
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,380
these people are victims the people who

636
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:57,840
fall for these grief vampires absolutely

637
00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:59,220
and that's my message throughout the

638
00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:02,220
book that uh that uh people are

639
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:04,380
vulnerable and at different times of

640
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:06,000
their life and they can fall for

641
00:30:10,850 --> 00:30:08,640
different kinds of scams it may not be a

642
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:10,860
psychic this time it may be a romance

643
00:30:16,370 --> 00:30:13,200
scam it may be a multi-level marketing

644
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:16,380
scam it might be uh something you heard

645
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:18,600
on the internet some conspiracy theory

646
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:21,779
that you believed in for whatever reason

647
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:24,720
um the victims are exactly that they're

648
00:30:30,289 --> 00:30:27,059
victims of this and it's varied and so

649
00:30:33,470 --> 00:30:30,299
we shouldn't blame them necessarily for

650
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:33,480
falling victim to very slick things and

651
00:30:39,049 --> 00:30:35,220
yeah some of the times it's only during

652
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:39,059
a time uh uh a moment in time when you

653
00:30:43,490 --> 00:30:41,460
are at your most vulnerable you've you

654
00:30:45,889 --> 00:30:43,500
know you're extremely lonely or you're

655
00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:45,899
depressed or you've had some sort of

656
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:47,640
trauma in your life and you're turning

657
00:30:55,370 --> 00:30:52,679
to somebody that looks like they're want

658
00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:55,380
to help you out but actually they have

659
00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:57,720
another agenda yes of course yes of

660
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:00,840
course as you say there will

661
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:04,260
rehearsed in their art their skillful

662
00:31:10,010 --> 00:31:07,500
they come across as wanting only to help

663
00:31:12,649 --> 00:31:10,020
people for the very best of reasons

664
00:31:15,649 --> 00:31:12,659
but I imagine there's many interesting

665
00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,659
stories you you outline in your book

666
00:31:19,850 --> 00:31:17,520
um real life stories you know real

667
00:31:23,389 --> 00:31:19,860
people being impacted yeah you're

668
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:23,399
absolutely right I have a lot of stories

669
00:31:29,450 --> 00:31:26,640
um some of them are quite sad and I do a

670
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:29,460
lot of transcribing so I will take out

671
00:31:34,669 --> 00:31:31,799
stories that I've heard directly from

672
00:31:36,590 --> 00:31:34,679
audio that I've we've recorded over the

673
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,600
years and

674
00:31:41,090 --> 00:31:38,399
you know you don't always get the no

675
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:41,100
Nuance as far as the tone and the words

676
00:31:45,169 --> 00:31:43,380
but I try to get that through with the

677
00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:45,179
transcriptions and other things that

678
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:47,640
we'll say and explain but

679
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:49,380
um it's quite sad

680
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:50,880
um there's really nothing entertaining

681
00:31:57,470 --> 00:31:54,559
about what these people do it's it's

682
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:57,480
real victimization it's it's really sad

683
00:32:03,470 --> 00:32:00,419
and I'm enjoying writing the book

684
00:32:05,389 --> 00:32:03,480
yeah but you know as I write articles

685
00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:05,399
for skeptical inquire I might write an

686
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:07,020
article for skeptical inquire about

687
00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:09,240
grief vampires and then two months later

688
00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,580
I write another one this time I'm really

689
00:32:15,049 --> 00:32:13,679
looking at it in depth and it's one

690
00:32:18,049 --> 00:32:15,059
after the other after the other after

691
00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:18,059
the other and you really see the impact

692
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:19,860
I think that it's

693
00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:23,340
it's kind of a hard thing to um

694
00:32:27,289 --> 00:32:25,860
to deal with every day which is what

695
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:27,299
I've been doing lately is really

696
00:32:33,470 --> 00:32:29,940
focusing on getting this done

697
00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:33,480
wow I I find this fascinating I don't

698
00:32:40,370 --> 00:32:35,580
envy you because it is a bit of a grind

699
00:32:42,649 --> 00:32:40,380
now when and where and how can we expect

700
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,659
to see this book how can we get our hot

701
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:44,640
little hands on it we'll be available

702
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,120
online is there a publisher I wish we

703
00:32:52,130 --> 00:32:49,679
could ask a psychic because I don't know

704
00:32:53,590 --> 00:32:52,140
this is my first book I don't I don't

705
00:32:56,510 --> 00:32:53,600
know how this works

706
00:32:59,149 --> 00:32:56,520
I've had many people in the skeptic

707
00:33:01,610 --> 00:32:59,159
Community for years that I admire that

708
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:01,620
have told me like Ben Radford Susan get

709
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:03,120
the book out you need to write the book

710
00:33:07,570 --> 00:33:04,799
and how many people have told me this

711
00:33:11,529 --> 00:33:07,580
including yourself I believe Richard yes

712
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:11,539
so I'm I'm getting it out and

713
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,159
I think you know Mark Edwards also

714
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:16,559
written a book and he's been advising me

715
00:33:21,230 --> 00:33:19,080
I it will not be self-published I sure

716
00:33:22,909 --> 00:33:21,240
hope not yeah and I want to be able to

717
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,919
have a lot of illustrations and

718
00:33:25,970 --> 00:33:24,480
photographs in it because you know I'm a

719
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:25,980
photographer and I love visual things

720
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:28,559
yeah so

721
00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:31,039
um I'm trying to get it done

722
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:34,440
by right now I'm at 31 chapters and

723
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,600
they're almost everything is written wow

724
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:38,399
I think everything's almost done I'm

725
00:33:42,409 --> 00:33:39,840
just right now kind of going through and

726
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:42,419
cleaning everything up and then I'm

727
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:43,919
gonna give it to Ben Radford to look at

728
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:45,480
and he told me he'd give me his honest

729
00:33:51,409 --> 00:33:47,820
opinion on it and then we're gonna find

730
00:33:54,169 --> 00:33:51,419
a publisher and so you know my goal is

731
00:33:57,409 --> 00:33:54,179
Richard is I want to go

732
00:34:01,310 --> 00:33:57,419
back to Australia and New Zealand this

733
00:34:04,190 --> 00:34:01,320
fall so that would be I want to go with

734
00:34:06,649 --> 00:34:04,200
my book so that's my motivation I'm

735
00:34:09,050 --> 00:34:06,659
thinking in my brain you know cycon will

736
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,060
be in October I sure as heck hope it'll

737
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,119
be done by October and print and

738
00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:15,119
audiobook and then have uh be able to go

739
00:34:17,869 --> 00:34:16,440
over it all study in New Zealand because

740
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:17,879
I would love to come see you guys that's

741
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,200
my goal is to get back over there in

742
00:34:25,790 --> 00:34:22,320
2023. last time I was there was 2019.

743
00:34:28,909 --> 00:34:25,800
wow I came home right before yes it

744
00:34:31,609 --> 00:34:28,919
closed down it was really amazing but um

745
00:34:33,169 --> 00:34:31,619
you know my I I'd love to come back I

746
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:33,179
really would so I'm hoping that you guys

747
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:35,700
will invite me back and

748
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:37,200
um a lot of graph the book for you that

749
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:38,820
is my goal but no I do not have a

750
00:34:42,409 --> 00:34:41,280
publisher but all right all right so

751
00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:42,419
it's it's

752
00:34:46,070 --> 00:34:44,820
really a yes we'll ask the psychics

753
00:34:47,930 --> 00:34:46,080
what's going to happen next but it's a

754
00:34:50,270 --> 00:34:47,940
case of watch this space watch this

755
00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:50,280
space Susan I can't wait to read the

756
00:34:53,869 --> 00:34:51,659
book I really can't wait to read the

757
00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:53,879
book I can't wait to hear the audio book

758
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,859
because I like audio books no idea how

759
00:34:58,490 --> 00:34:57,119
I'm going to do that oh my gosh I've

760
00:35:00,829 --> 00:34:58,500
been thinking about it because one whole

761
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:00,839
chapter is on Jeanette Wilson yeah she's

762
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:03,599
the New Zealand uh psychic media we did

763
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:05,580
an investigation on I've been toying

764
00:35:10,910 --> 00:35:07,500
with the idea of having somebody from

765
00:35:13,490 --> 00:35:10,920
New Zealand doing the audio because I've

766
00:35:15,950 --> 00:35:13,500
got lots of transcripts in there I see

767
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:15,960
you know I'm thinking should I should I

768
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,119
get one of our New Zealand Skeptics to

769
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:20,400
kind of do the audio voice for that and

770
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:22,260
I think they're really kind of fun but

771
00:35:26,810 --> 00:35:24,300
it might be kind of funny I do I can't

772
00:35:29,089 --> 00:35:26,820
do the accent so it it that's a whole

773
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:29,099
different story because then you have to

774
00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:31,380
talk to your publisher about uh audio

775
00:35:35,870 --> 00:35:32,820
books and everything but I could

776
00:35:38,810 --> 00:35:35,880
recommend a a very good voice over

777
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:38,820
artist who lives in Canada Calgary by

778
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:41,820
the name of uh um something Hill Adrian

779
00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:44,000
Adrian

780
00:35:49,310 --> 00:35:46,619
but she does have a bit of a Canadian

781
00:35:50,810 --> 00:35:49,320
vibe to it oh well she is a great she

782
00:35:52,670 --> 00:35:50,820
does great there's a lot of really great

783
00:35:55,010 --> 00:35:52,680
voices in our community and we've heard

784
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:55,020
a lot of them on the skeptic zone right

785
00:35:58,730 --> 00:35:56,640
very true you've got a lot of really

786
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:58,740
great voices it's all those expensive

787
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:00,800
microphones

788
00:36:05,329 --> 00:36:04,079
oh my gosh did you buy a new one this

789
00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:05,339
year

790
00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:06,900
um it's only been a week

791
00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:09,240
if I bought a new microphone this year

792
00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:11,940
have I bought a new no but I probably

793
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:14,460
will at some stage but but if you look

794
00:36:18,290 --> 00:36:16,320
if you look closely the microphone I'm

795
00:36:21,470 --> 00:36:18,300
using at the moment is right between my

796
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,480
eyes yeah uh in a style that Brian

797
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,240
Dunning taught me because I'm I'm on the

798
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,160
road so to speak so I'm not in my

799
00:36:30,530 --> 00:36:29,040
regular studio I'm sure the audience are

800
00:36:32,329 --> 00:36:30,540
very interested in that but I'm sure the

801
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:32,339
audience would be more interested in

802
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:33,960
your book when it comes out grief

803
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:35,700
vampire Susan gerbick will keep

804
00:36:40,609 --> 00:36:37,740
everybody up to date when more news

805
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:40,619
comes to hand but for now Susan all the

806
00:36:45,650 --> 00:36:42,900
way down there in lovely Salinas

807
00:36:46,810 --> 00:36:45,660
California thank you very much thank you

808
00:36:56,050 --> 00:36:46,820
Richard

809
00:37:00,349 --> 00:36:57,380
thank you

810
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:00,359
[Music]

811
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:03,599
hi this is Dr Pamela gay from astronomy

812
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,420
cast each week Fraser Kane and I take

813
00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:08,400
our listeners on a fact-based journey

814
00:37:13,310 --> 00:37:10,680
through the cosmos with our weekly

815
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:13,320
podcast we explain not just what we know

816
00:37:17,870 --> 00:37:16,079
but how we know what we know about this

817
00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:17,880
universe that we share

818
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,820
check us out at astronomycast.com and

819
00:37:25,790 --> 00:37:23,280
look for us in iTunes Google Play and

820
00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:25,800
wherever you download podcasts see

821
00:37:45,609 --> 00:37:27,030
online

822
00:37:52,030 --> 00:37:48,290
now it's time once again to dive back

823
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:52,040
into those pages at Trove at

824
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,000
trove.nla.gov.iu the online resource

825
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,680
from the Australian government and the

826
00:38:01,069 --> 00:37:57,680
National Library of Australia

827
00:38:04,609 --> 00:38:01,079
hopefully three years to come where you

828
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:04,619
can dive in dive into the Trove swim

829
00:38:10,609 --> 00:38:08,160
about and find millions of Articles

830
00:38:13,069 --> 00:38:10,619
going back to Australian published

831
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:13,079
history now as I was looking around

832
00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:15,660
Trove an interesting article caught in

833
00:38:20,810 --> 00:38:17,540
my eye and this is about

834
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:20,820
Wicca now according to Wikipedia

835
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:23,460
different spelling of course wika is

836
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:28,200
spelled w i c c a that's the wicked

837
00:38:35,329 --> 00:38:30,440
we're interested in him right now

838
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,339
Wicca is a modern Pagan religion it was

839
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,720
developed in England during the first

840
00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:39,119
half of the 20th century and was

841
00:38:46,849 --> 00:38:43,560
introduced to the public in 1954 by

842
00:38:49,490 --> 00:38:46,859
Gerald Gardner a retired British civil

843
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,500
servant wicker drawers upon a diverse

844
00:38:55,310 --> 00:38:51,680
set of ancient Pagan and 20th Century

845
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:55,320
hermetic motifs for its theological

846
00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:58,260
structure and ritual practices and the

847
00:39:03,650 --> 00:38:59,940
Wikipedia page on that is quite

848
00:39:05,690 --> 00:39:03,660
extensive I will link it to the show

849
00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:05,700
notes this week

850
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:07,560
getting back to the article that caught

851
00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:10,380
my eye and this is a couple of articles

852
00:39:16,690 --> 00:39:14,040
one in response to the other the

853
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:16,700
original article comes from

854
00:39:25,210 --> 00:39:22,020
1987 from August 30th printed in the

855
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:25,220
Canberra times and the item is called

856
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:29,400
Among The Witches of Suburbia by Karen

857
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:32,000
Hubbard

858
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:37,560
[Music]

859
00:39:44,089 --> 00:39:40,920
here then is our work in the Pagan way

860
00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:44,099
to make magic in the name of our Gods to

861
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:45,900
share our magic where the gods would

862
00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:48,720
wish it and to come together in our

863
00:39:54,890 --> 00:39:51,720
ancient festivals of birth and life of

864
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:54,900
death and of change in the old rhythm

865
00:40:02,089 --> 00:39:58,560
the furniture is moved to clear a large

866
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:02,099
enough space a witch pins one end of a

867
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:04,740
red cord in the center of a room while

868
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:08,339
another pulls it to a length setting a

869
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,520
radius as a second which moves around

870
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:14,400
the room a third follows him with

871
00:40:21,410 --> 00:40:18,000
masking tape marking a circumference the

872
00:40:25,490 --> 00:40:21,420
circle is cast there are nine witches in

873
00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:25,500
the Suburban home in South West Canberra

874
00:40:32,030 --> 00:40:28,320
they are pleased to pose for photographs

875
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,040
nodding their lightweight gowns

876
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:34,560
and drawing hair or a hood over their

877
00:40:39,650 --> 00:40:37,680
faces while the flash bulbs threaten to

878
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:39,660
highlight their features they are

879
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:42,119
pleased to be photographed if it will

880
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:45,660
present them as they are at home with

881
00:40:50,569 --> 00:40:47,700
their own religion

882
00:40:53,750 --> 00:40:50,579
a book provided for suggestions on

883
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:53,760
possible settings shows naked witches

884
00:40:59,810 --> 00:40:55,920
and their Partners performing various

885
00:41:01,790 --> 00:40:59,820
rituals in and around the circle but

886
00:41:04,690 --> 00:41:01,800
this would not be appropriate as

887
00:41:10,190 --> 00:41:04,700
Canberra witches at least rarely went

888
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,200
quote sky-clad end quote besides it was

889
00:41:14,569 --> 00:41:12,480
too cold for that sort of thing in the

890
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:14,579
Australian Capital territory

891
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:17,640
they dress in floor-length gowns the

892
00:41:23,930 --> 00:41:20,700
most elaborate of which is worn by Simon

893
00:41:28,329 --> 00:41:23,940
a slim man with wispy hair and moist

894
00:41:32,569 --> 00:41:28,339
eyes and an ordained high priest of mat

895
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:32,579
the Egyptian goddess of truth how do you

896
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:35,599
like me in drag he jests

897
00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:38,280
flouncing his purple gown the gold

898
00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:41,880
embroidery on the skirt Edge floating

899
00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:45,660
across his bare feet as helps to set up

900
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:47,400
the altar

901
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:50,400
while photographers take pictures I

902
00:41:55,550 --> 00:41:52,800
kneel down near the wall of the lounge

903
00:41:58,250 --> 00:41:55,560
room and read about the initiation

904
00:42:00,410 --> 00:41:58,260
ceremony by the dim light of one of the

905
00:42:02,990 --> 00:42:00,420
candles at the Eastern point of the

906
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:03,000
circle reading from the book I learned

907
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:06,000
that the progressive witch or postulate

908
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:09,839
standing naked and blindfold is asked if

909
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:14,400
he has the courage to make the essay for

910
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,420
I say verily it were better to rush upon

911
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:21,359
my weapon and perish than to make the

912
00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:24,540
attempt with fear in thy heart

913
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,260
The High Priestess says to him during

914
00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:30,720
the initiation The High Priestess ties

915
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:34,500
the postulate up with cord she takes the

916
00:42:42,050 --> 00:42:37,680
Stout cord and ties it around his right

917
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,060
ankle leaving the ends free she then

918
00:42:47,569 --> 00:42:44,880
takes the longer cord and ties his

919
00:42:50,530 --> 00:42:47,579
wrists behind his back bringing the cord

920
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:50,540
around his neck and tying it in front

921
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:54,599
with the appropriate words the postulate

922
00:43:00,530 --> 00:42:57,200
is announced at each point of the circle

923
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:00,540
and then told to kneel The High

924
00:43:06,109 --> 00:43:02,640
Priestess blesses various parts of the

925
00:43:10,370 --> 00:43:06,119
postulate's body the feet knees groin or

926
00:43:13,970 --> 00:43:10,380
womb breasts and lips a measure of a

927
00:43:17,329 --> 00:43:13,980
reel of white cotton is taken around the

928
00:43:19,849 --> 00:43:17,339
head the breasts the hips and also the

929
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:19,859
length of the body tying a knot at each

930
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:20,760
point

931
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:24,000
the cotton is broken rolled up around

932
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:26,640
the postulate's finger blooded from a

933
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:29,760
pinprick of the thumb and then laying on

934
00:43:35,089 --> 00:43:32,760
the altar the postulate is again tied up

935
00:43:38,510 --> 00:43:35,099
around the ankles and forced to kneel

936
00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:38,520
out ready to swear thou Wilt always be

937
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:40,200
true to the art

938
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:41,760
yes

939
00:43:46,609 --> 00:43:44,220
thou must first be purified

940
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:46,619
a Scourge that looks like a cat of nine

941
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:49,440
tails made from knotted rope is lashed

942
00:43:56,270 --> 00:43:53,099
against the postulates buttocks 40 times

943
00:43:58,490 --> 00:43:56,280
and the ceremony goes on hmm

944
00:44:00,770 --> 00:43:58,500
the formality of the printed word seemed

945
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:00,780
out of context with the scene in the

946
00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:04,200
Suburban home and out on the lawn where

947
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,540
the cold witches obliged with a bit of

948
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:08,960
dancing around a very small cauldron

949
00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:12,900
Dewey grass sticking to their feet but

950
00:44:18,109 --> 00:44:15,300
back inside the well heated Lounge room

951
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,119
the Implements of The Craft including a

952
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,359
scouge brought back the seriousness with

953
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:23,280
which these people take their religion

954
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:27,119
as seriousness which they often used to

955
00:44:33,890 --> 00:44:30,780
mock the Christian fear of the occult

956
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:33,900
in their gowns The Witches Milling

957
00:44:40,130 --> 00:44:36,599
around me looked only slightly different

958
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,140
than their Suburban personalities whom I

959
00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:42,240
had met some weeks before

960
00:44:48,109 --> 00:44:45,540
Alan 37 had been dressed in the Pressed

961
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:48,119
trousers he had worn during his day job

962
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:50,880
in the public service the only thing

963
00:44:56,530 --> 00:44:54,060
which had linked him to Witchcraft was

964
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:56,540
the five-pointed star around his neck

965
00:45:03,970 --> 00:45:02,099
his wife Leone wore an ankh the Egyptian

966
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:03,980
sign for long life

967
00:45:10,670 --> 00:45:07,920
Wendy and Fred and Fred is in quotes

968
00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:10,680
a young couple who have both been

969
00:45:14,030 --> 00:45:12,900
interested in witchcraft for more than

970
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:14,040
10 years

971
00:45:19,849 --> 00:45:17,400
but have only been involved with their

972
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:19,859
present group for the past two sat

973
00:45:26,569 --> 00:45:22,920
quietly at first interrupting Simon only

974
00:45:29,690 --> 00:45:26,579
when he gave them a chance Simon who

975
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:29,700
chose not to give his age suffice to say

976
00:45:34,730 --> 00:45:32,280
he was over 30 was an interesting

977
00:45:37,609 --> 00:45:34,740
character who had driven ambulances

978
00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:37,619
worked for the Royal Australian Navy and

979
00:45:42,589 --> 00:45:40,380
studied covens in countries including

980
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:42,599
Ireland England and Germany

981
00:45:48,530 --> 00:45:46,560
as he said I've done lots of things this

982
00:45:51,290 --> 00:45:48,540
isn't just a case of the dull public

983
00:45:53,809 --> 00:45:51,300
servant looking for some excitement

984
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:53,819
from his base in Western Australia he

985
00:46:00,650 --> 00:45:56,700
has fought anti-occult Crusaders like

986
00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:00,660
David Linton a former Victorian

987
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:03,720
policeman and now head of a detective

988
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:06,480
agency who once called Perth the

989
00:46:11,690 --> 00:46:08,819
Witchcraft capital of the country

990
00:46:14,930 --> 00:46:11,700
Mr Lenten recently quoted in the camera

991
00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:14,940
times has spoken of carrying out a house

992
00:46:22,849 --> 00:46:19,140
raid with police and discovering several

993
00:46:25,790 --> 00:46:22,859
adults eating a live Chicken in front of

994
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:25,800
children and the blood was pouring down

995
00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:28,200
their mouths he had said

996
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,020
Mr Lenten is working on a report on the

997
00:46:35,569 --> 00:46:33,599
extent of the occult in Australia which

998
00:46:39,050 --> 00:46:35,579
he intends to present to the federal

999
00:46:41,690 --> 00:46:39,060
government on its completion The Witches

1000
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:41,700
complained that a fear of the occult had

1001
00:46:47,569 --> 00:46:44,880
led to such isolated instance as were

1002
00:46:51,170 --> 00:46:47,579
published through Mr Lenten becoming

1003
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:51,180
seen as the norm when 64 animals were

1004
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:54,000
slaughtered at the Adelaide Zoo in March

1005
00:47:01,250 --> 00:46:57,660
1985 witches were the first to be blamed

1006
00:47:04,750 --> 00:47:01,260
witches got blamed for a lot of things

1007
00:47:07,790 --> 00:47:04,760
sitting in a cozy warm waramanga home

1008
00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:07,800
Simon and his four friends joked about

1009
00:47:12,530 --> 00:47:10,260
how misunderstood witches and pagans

1010
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:12,540
were they joked about what a

1011
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,839
misrepresented word a cult was didn't

1012
00:47:21,230 --> 00:47:17,760
the public know that witches no longer

1013
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,240
use brooms these days they had to buy

1014
00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:24,240
vacuum cleaners with extremely long

1015
00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:27,780
cords even within covens there is some

1016
00:47:33,770 --> 00:47:30,660
argument about implements and their

1017
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:33,780
ritual use an explanation of tools

1018
00:47:39,010 --> 00:47:36,240
provided by Simon explains the

1019
00:47:43,849 --> 00:47:39,020
controversy surrounding the scouge

1020
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:43,859
saying it is the most misunderstood of

1021
00:47:50,450 --> 00:47:47,040
the weapons and accordingly is not used

1022
00:47:53,809 --> 00:47:50,460
by many covens The Scourge is used for

1023
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:53,819
purification and Enlightenment although

1024
00:47:58,970 --> 00:47:55,920
there are suggestions that it has been

1025
00:48:01,609 --> 00:47:58,980
linked with sexual fantasies and this

1026
00:48:03,770 --> 00:48:01,619
puts some covens off

1027
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:03,780
with most mentions of the occult in the

1028
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:06,680
media referring to bloody sacrifices

1029
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:11,520
mutilations sexual deviance or deaths of

1030
00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:15,780
misled use witches are finding it very

1031
00:48:21,710 --> 00:48:18,540
difficult to be seen as respectable

1032
00:48:24,050 --> 00:48:21,720
the Macquarie dictionary defines the

1033
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:24,060
occult as something hidden beyond the

1034
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,640
bounds of ordinary knowledge it also

1035
00:48:32,569 --> 00:48:29,760
describes it as quote not disclosed

1036
00:48:37,069 --> 00:48:32,579
secret communicated only to the

1037
00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:37,079
initiated end quote wika a pagan nature

1038
00:48:44,690 --> 00:48:39,960
religion is part of a complex philosophy

1039
00:48:47,870 --> 00:48:44,700
which Alan Leone Wendy Fred and Simon

1040
00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:47,880
tried to explain without disclosing too

1041
00:48:53,569 --> 00:48:50,520
much to the uninitiated it celebrates

1042
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,579
the seasons and gods of the seasons and

1043
00:48:59,690 --> 00:48:55,680
what they represent through Agricultural

1044
00:49:03,650 --> 00:48:59,700
and zodiacal festivals during the year

1045
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:03,660
the law is and if it harm none do what

1046
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,020
you will Leone explained you're not

1047
00:49:13,730 --> 00:49:10,319
allowed to force other people there's no

1048
00:49:16,849 --> 00:49:13,740
coercion involved another law is that

1049
00:49:19,790 --> 00:49:16,859
witches obey the laws of the land those

1050
00:49:21,890 --> 00:49:19,800
laws do not rule out the worshiping of

1051
00:49:25,550 --> 00:49:21,900
their pagan gods or the festivals or

1052
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:25,560
dancing naked or skyclad as they call it

1053
00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:28,260
when the festival or mood takes them

1054
00:49:34,069 --> 00:49:31,020
they do admit that for anyone who is a

1055
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:34,079
bit unstable joining the occult would

1056
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:37,680
tend to amplify the instability Alan

1057
00:49:43,069 --> 00:49:40,079
remarked if a person has a fault

1058
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:43,079
somewhere inside them then it's going to

1059
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:46,560
be pronounced and if it wasn't going to

1060
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:48,800
happen now it's going to happen later

1061
00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:51,920
Alan became interested in paganism

1062
00:49:57,770 --> 00:49:55,140
shortly after becoming disenchanted with

1063
00:50:00,890 --> 00:49:57,780
Christianity the turning point he said

1064
00:50:03,170 --> 00:50:00,900
came during a Sunday service I was very

1065
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:03,180
interested in religion and was going to

1066
00:50:09,410 --> 00:50:07,020
church four times on Sundays when I was

1067
00:50:12,349 --> 00:50:09,420
11 years old I had a friend who was a

1068
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:12,359
bit of a black sheep and he used to make

1069
00:50:19,609 --> 00:50:16,200
farting noises in church Alan recalled

1070
00:50:22,550 --> 00:50:19,619
someone told him if you really want to

1071
00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:22,560
become youth leader you'll stop sitting

1072
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:24,119
with this boy

1073
00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:27,000
and he had dwelled on what was behind

1074
00:50:32,990 --> 00:50:30,599
that statement for some time craft is

1075
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:33,000
what's right for me it doesn't tie

1076
00:50:37,970 --> 00:50:35,220
people to the stake it represents a

1077
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:37,980
priesthood of another Faith The Witches

1078
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:39,300
spoke of different levels of

1079
00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:42,240
consciousness and celebration in the

1080
00:50:47,690 --> 00:50:45,240
same authoritative tones as a

1081
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:47,700
psychologist would use to explain how a

1082
00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:49,680
Freudian Theory applied to a particular

1083
00:50:56,089 --> 00:50:53,880
patient with comments like witches live

1084
00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:56,099
life they are life

1085
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:58,920
it seemed as if they were making higher

1086
00:51:03,530 --> 00:51:01,440
beings of themselves and breaking down

1087
00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:03,540
the barriers between what Christians

1088
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:06,780
would call Heaven and Earth although

1089
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:09,599
they do not believe in the concept but

1090
00:51:16,190 --> 00:51:13,140
it is the unknown which the average

1091
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:16,200
person may find difficult to come to

1092
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,119
terms with the tying of power knots in

1093
00:51:26,089 --> 00:51:23,280
the chords held by each witch on the

1094
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:26,099
edge of the circle and centered over a

1095
00:51:31,670 --> 00:51:29,220
photograph is a physical action the

1096
00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:31,680
healing said to benefit the person who

1097
00:51:35,809 --> 00:51:34,020
is featured in the picture is something

1098
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:35,819
else altogether

1099
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:37,920
the occult side of paganism and

1100
00:51:43,010 --> 00:51:40,680
Witchcraft was explained this way the

1101
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:43,020
fact that we are witches doesn't mean

1102
00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:46,140
our cars don't break down but as another

1103
00:51:53,690 --> 00:51:49,140
said neither did it mean that they could

1104
00:51:55,849 --> 00:51:53,700
act to change their circumstances

1105
00:51:59,089 --> 00:51:55,859
and there are two photographs

1106
00:52:03,530 --> 00:51:59,099
accompanying this report

1107
00:52:05,809 --> 00:52:03,540
one is a group of people sitting in

1108
00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:05,819
what appears to be a normal

1109
00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:08,700
Lounge room with a cauldron in the

1110
00:52:12,349 --> 00:52:10,500
middle and they're all pointing little

1111
00:52:14,510 --> 00:52:12,359
daggers at The Cauldron

1112
00:52:17,630 --> 00:52:14,520
and the caption reads Alan and the other

1113
00:52:18,770 --> 00:52:17,640
witches hit knives over the flame of a

1114
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:18,780
cauldron

1115
00:52:24,410 --> 00:52:21,599
and the last picture is a little hard to

1116
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:24,420
see exactly what's going on being black

1117
00:52:28,490 --> 00:52:25,800
and white

1118
00:52:30,890 --> 00:52:28,500
uh people gather around the table with

1119
00:52:34,730 --> 00:52:30,900
implements The Witches join hands around

1120
00:52:36,349 --> 00:52:34,740
their altar on which uh objects of their

1121
00:52:38,450 --> 00:52:36,359
ritual

1122
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:38,460
so what a fascinating report all the way

1123
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:42,180
back from 1987 in the Canberra times and

1124
00:52:46,130 --> 00:52:43,920
this led to

1125
00:52:48,410 --> 00:52:46,140
a reply

1126
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:48,420
and this was received on the 1st of

1127
00:52:54,589 --> 00:52:51,839
September 1987 to the Canberra times

1128
00:52:57,710 --> 00:52:54,599
the dangers of the occult

1129
00:53:00,589 --> 00:52:57,720
sir it is encouraging to learn from

1130
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:00,599
Karen Harbert camera times August 30th

1131
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:03,720
that the Canberra coven is relatively

1132
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,480
enlightened and doesn't indulge in some

1133
00:53:12,290 --> 00:53:09,599
of the darker satanic practices such as

1134
00:53:14,809 --> 00:53:12,300
animal sacrifice it is also good to

1135
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:14,819
learn that Mr Goodman and his associates

1136
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:18,240
Endeavor not to amplify the instability

1137
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:21,660
of the Disturbed a lot of occult and

1138
00:53:27,770 --> 00:53:24,079
paranormal beliefs are harmless nonsense

1139
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,780
on the basis of the evidence which Ms

1140
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:30,000
Harbert presented the Canberra witches

1141
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:33,359
seemed to fall into this category

1142
00:53:39,770 --> 00:53:36,720
we may presumably conclude that the

1143
00:53:42,770 --> 00:53:39,780
Spells cast by this group are relatively

1144
00:53:45,049 --> 00:53:42,780
benign Skeptics don't take a strong

1145
00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:45,059
stand against the conduct of weaker

1146
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:47,900
rituals in private by concerning adults

1147
00:53:54,770 --> 00:53:51,359
it probably brightens up the boredom of

1148
00:53:57,290 --> 00:53:54,780
Canberra Suburbia nevertheless while a

1149
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:57,300
lot of occult and paranormal beliefs are

1150
00:54:03,290 --> 00:54:00,000
harmless nonsense the traditional aim of

1151
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:03,300
occult practice is to use ritual to

1152
00:54:09,710 --> 00:54:06,079
acquire power and dominance over others

1153
00:54:12,890 --> 00:54:09,720
therein lies potential danger for the

1154
00:54:15,370 --> 00:54:12,900
exploitation of the gullible and that

1155
00:54:17,809 --> 00:54:15,380
signed Dr William Gray president

1156
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:17,819
Canberra Skeptics

1157
00:54:32,210 --> 00:54:28,250
so what do you think what do you think I

1158
00:54:35,329 --> 00:54:32,220
haven't had much to do with paganism or

1159
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:35,339
wicker over the years it really hasn't

1160
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:37,520
come on the skeptical radar very much

1161
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,559
it's out there I uh

1162
00:54:45,410 --> 00:54:42,480
I've seen it here and there at mindbody

1163
00:54:47,809 --> 00:54:45,420
wallet Festival so whatever

1164
00:54:50,210 --> 00:54:47,819
but it's not something that I don't

1165
00:54:52,809 --> 00:54:50,220
think the skeptical movement has really

1166
00:54:55,970 --> 00:54:52,819
been involved with too much

1167
00:54:57,660 --> 00:54:55,980
I wonder what the situation is like

1168
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:57,670
where you live

1169
00:55:01,750 --> 00:54:59,119
[Music]

1170
00:55:05,930 --> 00:55:01,760
so there we are an interesting report

1171
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:05,940
way back all the way back there in 1987

1172
00:55:12,890 --> 00:55:10,559
about the uh witches in Suburbia the

1173
00:55:17,450 --> 00:55:12,900
Suburbia of Canberra

1174
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,460
[Music]

1175
00:55:21,710 --> 00:55:19,440
and that reinforces to me one of the

1176
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:21,720
things I keep saying that when you're

1177
00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:25,680
trawling through the pages of Trove you

1178
00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:28,800
never know what you might find

1179
00:55:31,550 --> 00:55:48,230
[Music]

1180
00:55:53,470 --> 00:55:49,849
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1181
00:55:56,089 --> 00:55:53,480
Zone podcast now if you go to

1182
00:55:58,250 --> 00:55:56,099
skepticzone.tv and look at this week's

1183
00:56:01,370 --> 00:55:58,260
show notes you'll notice I've been

1184
00:56:03,890 --> 00:56:01,380
adding since last week a little uh

1185
00:56:06,049 --> 00:56:03,900
little section there called 10 years ago

1186
00:56:07,970 --> 00:56:06,059
where you can see what was happening on

1187
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:07,980
the skeptic Zone podcast with a link so

1188
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:11,760
you can listen to it 10 years ago

1189
00:56:18,049 --> 00:56:14,400
so 10 years ago the skeptic Zone was at

1190
00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:18,059
episode 221 for the 13th of January

1191
00:56:24,170 --> 00:56:20,520
2013.

1192
00:56:26,569 --> 00:56:24,180
and on that show Maynard interviewed

1193
00:56:29,450 --> 00:56:26,579
Brian Dunning about worms and other

1194
00:56:32,410 --> 00:56:29,460
monsters Dr rachi appeared on a national

1195
00:56:36,109 --> 00:56:32,420
television show to talk about

1196
00:56:38,510 --> 00:56:36,119
Melanie's marvelous measles a ridiculous

1197
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:38,520
book and we had the think tank segment

1198
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:41,520
with Diane Dr Richie Joe benami Iran

1199
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:44,760
segev and myself fascinating to see what

1200
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:48,000
the show was doing 10 years ago

1201
00:56:52,430 --> 00:56:49,740
thank you to those people who have been

1202
00:56:55,069 --> 00:56:52,440
with the show for 10 years plus or even

1203
00:56:57,770 --> 00:56:55,079
recently by uh

1204
00:57:00,290 --> 00:56:57,780
supporting the show at skepticzone.tv

1205
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:00,300
with PayPal or patreon

1206
00:57:04,089 --> 00:57:02,160
means the show keeps going your

1207
00:57:06,650 --> 00:57:04,099
contributions and I thank you very much

1208
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:06,660
especially to those people who have just

1209
00:57:10,910 --> 00:57:09,359
joined this year and I must thank the

1210
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,920
wonderful friends my wonderful friends

1211
00:57:16,250 --> 00:57:12,480
at the Skeptics Guide to the universe

1212
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:16,260
podcast who had very kind comments about

1213
00:57:22,609 --> 00:57:18,720
me on their show at the end of the year

1214
00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:22,619
much appreciated and uh very kind of you

1215
00:57:28,490 --> 00:57:25,980
indeed but for this week this is Richard

1216
00:57:35,710 --> 00:57:28,500
Saunders signing off from the Bay Area

1217
00:57:42,609 --> 00:57:38,030
you've been listening to the skeptic

1218
00:57:44,890 --> 00:57:42,619
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1219
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:44,900
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1220
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:48,000
contacts and to access the back catalog

1221
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:51,599
of episodes going back to 2008.

1222
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:53,520
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1223
00:57:59,450 --> 00:57:57,119
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1224
00:58:00,770 --> 00:57:59,460
Facebook page or leave a review on

1225
00:58:02,990 --> 00:58:00,780
iTunes

1226
00:58:06,290 --> 00:58:03,000
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1227
00:58:09,650 --> 00:58:06,300
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1228
00:58:11,329 --> 00:58:09,660
podcast is an independent production the

1229
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,339
views and opinions expressed on the

1230
00:58:15,770 --> 00:58:13,440
skeptic zone are not necessarily those